Curse

Erika Blackblade · Jun 12, 2009, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Im trying to get a good PvE pure pve prot build, right now I am running this build tell me what I can do to make it better or should I just drop the idea and move back to healing?

Build

Glyph of Lesser Energy
Aegis
Life Sheath
Reversal of Fortune
Shield of Absorption
Protective Spirit
Reverse Hex
Rebirth

I know there is alot to fix here so yea

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 12, 2009, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erika Blackblade

Im trying to get a good PvE pure pve prot build, right now I am running this build tell me what I can do to make it better or should I just drop the idea and move back to healing?

Build

Glyph of Lesser Energy
Aegis
Life Sheath
Reversal of Fortune
Shield of Absorption
Protective Spirit
Reverse Hex
Rebirth

I know there is alot to fix here so yea

Personally, I like
Blessed Aura
Aura of Faith
Aegis
Great Dwarf Armor
Guardian
Remove Hex
Dismiss Condition
Sunspear Rebirth Signet

Or, you could use the above with UA.
PnH works well too

Momir · Jun 12, 2009, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Attributes? I'm guessing you're at 12 prot, 12 divine, I'd split and go 12 prot 9 diving 9 healing

Take out aegis, it's nice, but not quite worth it unless you're chaining it. Put gaurdian in it's place. Take reverse hex out and throw in Cure Hex(that's where the 9 healing comes in). I prefer Cure to Reverse, dunno why, just do. Since Aegis is gone, we don't need GoLE, so I say bring Dismiss Conditions Or Spirit Bond for those heavy dmg areas.

Just my two cent's

Revelations · Jun 12, 2009, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momir

Attributes? I'm guessing you're at 12 prot, 12 divine, I'd split and go 12 prot 9 diving 9 healing

Take out aegis, it's nice, but not quite worth it unless you're chaining it. Put gaurdian in it's place. Take reverse hex out and throw in Cure Hex(that's where the 9 healing comes in). I prefer Cure to Reverse, dunno why, just do. Since Aegis is gone, we don't need GoLE, so I say bring Dismiss Conditions Or Spirit Bond for those heavy dmg areas.

Just my two cent's

1) Aegis is worth it, regardless of whether or not it is chained. It is probably the best prot skill in existence for NM pve, and tied with prot spirit in HM.

2) 9 Healprayers just for cure hex is a pointless investment - especially since it appears the OP wishes to create a pure prot bar. Reverse hex is somewhat energy intensive though. I would suggest plain old remove hex, or ignore hex removal completely. They're usually pretty spammed in pve, and since the AI is ridiculous at hexing anything you remove will probably quickly be reapplied.

3) GoLE is still a VERY worthwhile investment on a monk bar, with or without Aegis. Prot spirit is still 10 energy, and it's a very useful skill to throw around in HM. Even if you blow it on a 10e and a 5e then it still nets 10e every 30 seconds, which is what? 1 extra pip of regen? Probably the best emanagement out there for a human monk.

4) Dismiss on a Life Sheath bar. Why are you even posting in this thread?

5) Spirit bond is pretty nice, though running it on a bar alongside prot spirit is probably going to kill your energy quickly. Either that or you wont be using it much anyway so that it doesn't kill your energy.

OPs bar is fine, other than probably reverse hex. I don't usually run a res on my monk either, but that's a matter of personal preference. Consider throwing in guardian if you drop either. Run it alongside a redbar bitch and you should do pretty well.

rick1027 · Jun 12, 2009, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erika Blackblade

Im trying to get a good PvE pure pve prot build, right now I am running this build tell me what I can do to make it better or should I just drop the idea and move back to healing?

Build

Glyph of Lesser Energy
Aegis
Life Sheath
Reversal of Fortune
Shield of Absorption
Protective Spirit
Reverse Hex
Rebirth

I know there is alot to fix here so yea

i use the same bar almost but the elite i dont have life sheath i use zealous benediction instead which gives back energy and i throw in guardian instead of a res i prefer res scrolls. i put dismiss condition in place of reverse hex where the hexes arent as bad might even go peace and harmony if it high hex area. i dont always bring glyph cause i use zealous

zwei2stein · Jun 12, 2009, 06:45 AM // 06:45

There is no pure prot build that is really good in pve.

Glyph of Lesser Energy - good
Aegis - good
Life Sheath / Reversal of Fortune - redundant. reversal is not that great in pve, tbh, you can cover most damage with soa and prot spirit. and elite condition removal is not something desirable
Shield of Absorption - good
Protective Spirit - good
Reverse Hex - bad, too costly for its effect.
Rebirth - bad, leave ressing on rest of team, and use this slot for somethign that prevent deaths.

With skills labeled as 'good' you have more than enough prot. anything more is gonna be redundant and you can as well just bring WoH / Cure Hex / Dismiss condition.

Racthoh · Jun 12, 2009, 08:10 AM // 08:10

I'll just comment on Life Sheath as Reverse Hex (too costly) and Rebirth (never a res on a Monk) have already been touched on.

Personally I stopped using condition removal on my Monk for reasons mentioned here. In a nutshell condition removal on a Monk is worth taking if you're running a physical heavy party expecting covered Blind/Weakness in a zone packed with degen conditions as well. In which case however you run Restore Conditions to heal all of that degen and to ensure you get the Blind/Weakness off your physicals. With that in mind there is no reason to run Life Sheath over Restore Conditions, and even then Restore Conditions is a conditional elite to use.

Improvavel · Jun 12, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I'll just comment on Life Sheath as Reverse Hex (too costly) and Rebirth (never a res on a Monk) have already been touched on.

Personally I stopped using condition removal on my Monk for reasons mentioned here. In a nutshell condition removal on a Monk is worth taking if you're running a physical heavy party expecting covered Blind/Weakness in a zone packed with degen conditions as well. In which case however you run Restore Conditions to heal all of that degen and to ensure you get the Blind/Weakness off your physicals. With that in mind there is no reason to run Life Sheath over Restore Conditions, and even then Restore Conditions is a conditional elite to use.

I'll just add that additionally Foul Feast is quite powerful.

Regarding the, IMO, myth that "AI spams hexes so fast is not worth bring hex removal" I disagree. In a caster team is ok to ignore the majority of hexes since only a handful hurt casters in any way. Physicals is another story.

Physicals team will get hampered and killed by hexes. Good Hex removal elites like Divert hexes (in extreme cases), Expel hexes, Empathic removal, Convert Hexes (generally not on a monk), Hex eater signet and others hex removal skills on midliners, will keep your team clean even in heavy hex areas.

Pip Squeak · Jun 12, 2009, 02:37 PM // 14:37

-GoLE: great e-management, should be in majority of monk bars
-Aegis: should only be used if the area will have a lot of physicals, otherwise Guardian is the prefered choice because it costs less energy and recharges faster.
-Life Sheath: not too bad, but most people use a healing elite to balance protection and healing. How else will you get the red bars back up?
-RoF: not very useful in PvE.
-Shield of Absorption: a nice, small prot that does not cost too much energy =]
-Prot Spirit: good.
-Reverse Hex: a big no-no. Monks tend to avoid costly skills that don't have that great of an effect. Put in Dismiss Condition for heavy condition areas or Cure Hex for hex areas (just remember to invest in healing prayers).
-Rebirth: normally it's best to take out a res unless you're asked to take one or in a party-wipe friendly area.

I highly recommend not running a full prot build UNLESS there's a reliable source that can heal everyone back up. Most of the time you'd put in 2-3 healing skills and the rest prot/rez to heal yourself and teammates back to health. Full prot builds are hard to make because most of the elite skills can be easily be replaced by regular prot skills (example: Restore Condition is usually replaced with Dismiss Condition). However, if you really want a full prot build, then just take above advice ^^

sonofthort · Jun 12, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

I agree that life sheath is not the best elite to use in pve. When it comes down to it, you need to decide what you need to do in a group. If you have healers, then zealous benediction is a bad idea too, focus on pure prot, not healing. Dismiss condition is always good for a heal on a prot bad, good to have a little healing even if you have a healer already in the party. Prot spirit is pretty much a must, especially in hard mode. Shield of absorption is great, I also like shielding hands on the same bar. I usually don't bring hex removal on my prot bar, alot of prot functions as remedies for hexes that cause damage. As far as elites go, aura of faith is amazing, helps the healer, its great for catching somebodys health right before they die. Selfless spirit is nice too, I usually prefer it over GoLE. In some areas, a good old fasion glyph of renewal + divine spirit build works amazingly, so you can spam prot like crazy. Somebody also mentioned reversal of fortune being not so effective, I agree, it functions more as a heal than a major prot, I like prots that prevent alot of damage over time, if you want a heal use dismiss condition or even signet of devotion can work sometimes. If you are gonna go with aura of faith, it also has great synergy with seeds of life. Then, there is bonding, which is still pretty effective in certain areas.

ajc2123 · Jun 12, 2009, 02:58 PM // 14:58

If you bring Eve or anything with Blood renewal (or is it ritual......) Then you don't need any energy management. Eve is my best friend as a monk XD.

I would bring deny hexes instead of reverse hex, but other then that it looks like a rather solid build. Just need to learn when to use reversal of fortune and prots effectively, thats the hardest part.

Good luck.

Also, rebirth is fine on a PvE monk as long as you only use it properly. Meaning you run away and then rez. Its a last resort method and I rarely bring it myself, but if your the only human in the team, even if your a monk Rebirth is fine.

Erika Blackblade · Jun 12, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Ok by what everyone is saying and by my own opinions this is what I'll run when I want a prot bar.

GoLE
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Guardian (For those casters that get singled out by warriors, assassins, ranger, dervs, and paragons)
Remove Hex
Life Sheath (Idk what the deal is with me and life sheath I just like it)
SoA
Either SB or Great Dwarf Armor (Since it has some nice buff with my deld title being r10

Thanks for your opinion and support, leaving the main post for discussion, if mod decides to close fine by me.

MagmaRed · Jun 12, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erika Blackblade

Ok by what everyone is saying and by my own opinions this is what I'll run when I want a prot bar.

GoLE
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Guardian (For those casters that get singled out by warriors, assassins, ranger, dervs, and paragons)
Remove Hex
Life Sheath (Idk what the deal is with me and life sheath I just like it)
SoA
Either SB or Great Dwarf Armor (Since it has some nice buff with my deld title being r10

Thanks for your opinion and support, leaving the main post for discussion, if mod decides to close fine by me.

I think that goods very good, and is very similar to what I use in PvE. Condition removal is extremely important in my opinion. Blind and Weakness will destroy your physical classes, but Daze will destroy your casters too. Conditions like Bleeding, Poison, and Disease can be ignored to some extent, but remove them to provide a heal or relieve pressure when needed. Hex removal is not important for the most part in PvE. Usually you only see degen hexes like Conjure Phantasm, which are just a pressure hex. However, things like Faintheartedness and Binding Chains will make your physicals worthless, and hexes like Migraine and Frustration will kill your casters. The key is knowing what hexes are on your team and removing the ones you need to remove.

I think your bar looks capable of handling PvE great. Spirit Bond is amazing in HM where most monsters are capable of dishing out large damage. Don't overlook it when running in HM.

ShadowbaneX · Jun 13, 2009, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erika Blackblade

Ok by what everyone is saying and by my own opinions this is what I'll run when I want a prot bar.

GoLE
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Guardian (For those casters that get singled out by warriors, assassins, ranger, dervs, and paragons)
Remove Hex
Life Sheath (Idk what the deal is with me and life sheath I just like it)
SoA
Either SB or Great Dwarf Armor (Since it has some nice buff with my deld title being r10

Thanks for your opinion and support, leaving the main post for discussion, if mod decides to close fine by me.

Your bar is fairly similar to what I run on Tahlkora as a Prot: Life Sheath, Gift of Health, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Prot Spirit, Aegis, Shield of Absorption, Blessed Aura, Rebirth. Leave rebirth disabled, it's just there in cases of emergency.

What the other's say makes sense, but this is a decent enough bar. I run HB and I bring Tahlkora running this and it's been enough to make it through all of the missions in hard mode. Not the best, but it'll get people through. There's no hex removal here as it's on my bar, but if you really need it you can drop something for it. Also in hex heavy areas you can drop Life Sheath for Divert Hexes.

Gift of Health is a decent heal for the few points you invest in it and it never hurts to have that extra heal on your bar.

I do tend to run with a Sabway MM (ie with Aegis and Prot Spirit...also adding in BR for energy) so I can chain Aegis.

Racthoh · Jun 13, 2009, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofthort

Dismiss condition is always good for a heal on a prot bad, good to have a little healing even if you have a healer already in the party.

If you find yourself reaching for Dismiss Condition to heal frequently you're probably better suited running a Word of Healing bar. Protection Prayers are almost entirely proactive, not reactive. If a situation occurs where the best thing you can do at that moment is throw a 100~ point Dismiss Condition off you need to learn how to watch the field better and get more mileage out of each prot. This is especially true if you're not playing some kind of hybrid bar.

sonofthort · Jun 13, 2009, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

If you find yourself reaching for Dismiss Condition to heal frequently you're probably better suited running a Word of Healing bar. Protection Prayers are almost entirely proactive, not reactive. If a situation occurs where the best thing you can do at that moment is throw a 100~ point Dismiss Condition off you need to learn how to watch the field better and get more mileage out of each prot. This is especially true if you're not playing some kind of hybrid bar.

Ok... My rebuttal would be that the original build this thread was about wanted healing and condition removal on the same prot bar, I mearly suggested using a different elite, and dismiss condition for condition removal as well as a good heal from the prot line as opposed to reversal of fortune. You right tho, if you have healers, you don't really need to focus on healing, as I said in my original post. I don't "find myself reaching for dismiss condition to heal frequently", and also as I said in my original post I believe in using long lasting prot enchantments hence I believe in getting alot of mileage out of each prot, and watching the field. ty.

dark4190 · Jul 06, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I'd advise ZB as your elite. As I look at your bar, I remind myself why I hate prot: Every heal is conditional. You can't heal anyone unless they take damage(reversal of fortune/Life Sheath), have an enchantment on them(Dismiss Condition), Take TOO much damage (Spirit Bond). And everything else just reduces dmg(shielding hands), prevents dmg(PS), or avoids dmg(guardian). The only true heal of Protection Prayers is ZB.

PS. Glyph of lesser energy with ZB can in fact increase your energy; lets assume you've got PS and know that <50% health isn't a big deal since 10% is needed 5 times for them to die. Use GoLE, hit ZB, and that'd +2 energy (since GoLE cost 5e itself), and then ZB again on someone else to get a net gain of 9 energy.

Burst Cancel · Jul 08, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

GoLE is a waste of a slot for most monk bars. The last time I used it was with the old ZB bars, and that was what? Two years ago? Energy is almost never the problem - keeping track of everything on the field is the real issue.

There's really no reason to run pure prot when you could run a hybrid bar, which tend to be prot-heavy anyway while still bringing very strong redbarup. If you don't like the attribute spread, you can bring ZB+Gift instead of WoH+Patient, although you also lose out on Cure Hex that way. Your choice though.

To clarify, you can either run:
14 Heal: Word, Patient, Guardian/Kiss, Prot Spirit, Cure Hex, Dismiss*, SoA, Aegis
14 Prot: ZB, Gift, Guardian, Prot Spirit, Remove Hex, Dismiss*, SoA, Aegis

*replace with Dwayna's Sorrow if team has MM and FF.

Either is more effective than a "pure"-anything bar.

Edit: You can run RoF in place of Gift on the prot bar, which allows you to forgo healing spec altogether. You can also run RoF in place of Patient on the healing bar, although it's slightly less attractive there. Overall, I still find RoF to be the stronger skill in areas where degen is less of an issue; even at just 10 prot, RoF has better max efficiency than either Patient (@14) or Gift (@10) and is active immediately, and the obscene damage in HM makes it easier to use RoF effectively (heck, even wanding tends to do 60+ damage).

laksa and curry · Jul 08, 2009, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Hmmmm. why not go pure divine favour and have the rest of the points in Prot?

Attribute Spread (Base attribute excludes runes and helm bonus)
Divine 12
Prot 12

Skill bar

ELITE Life sheath, Prot Spirit, Shield of Asorption, seed of life, Remove hex, Divine healing, heaven's Delight, Rez*/GLOE*/Spare slot/*Gift of health if you have decent points in heal.

Sorry TS I know this is a little off topic but I feels it is able to bring out the fullest potential of the protection range of spell without sacificing the monk's healing ability.
Well I hope this helps ^^ Cheers.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 08, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by laksa and curry

Hmmmm. why not go pure divine favour and have the rest of the points in Prot?

Because a Hybrid bar (that is probably going to have 2 Heals, Hex removal, and the rest Prots) will do a better job than investing 12 into Divine Favor, 13 after you add a minor rune, for (13*3.2 = 41.6, rounded up) a +42hp DF heal per skill you use on someone.